Seriously? No, really, seriously?
Mar 25th, 2011 by heidi
The Great Tumblr Size 6 Debate Of 2011 [tm] rages on and I’d like to ask a question. Seriously. Who has been told that they are too thin for FA? Seriously.
I don’t mean “who’s been told that, objectively speaking, they aren’t fat enough to post in a fat-specific space.” I want to know who actually, seriously, has been told “sorry, you’re not fat enough to be in FA” because, honestly, I’ve never seen that in comments in the Fatosphere anywhere, ever, and I’m trying to get my head around the notion.
Please comment (don’t worry, I won’t flame you) because I honestly want to know where this is happening, because I truly haven’t seen it and it’s starting to drive me a little nuts. People keep saying they’ve been marginalized by FA but I have yet to see a concrete example of this happening.
Man, I’m glad I haven’t been party to this.
Honestly, I will be watching this post because I want to know too. Frankly, I don’t believe it’s happening. I believe this is a lot of shit-stirring for shit-stirring sake. There is a particular fat activist out there who luuuurrrvveess him some drama, and he’s always (conveniently) right at the center of these so-called debates. We don’t need this tea-party type baloney in FA.
Brian’s got a great post about this—have you seen it?
I’m not trying to start an argument, I really want to know – if flaming that size 6 girl who posted on FYCG that she was learning to love her chub (yeah, admittedly, she doesn’t look fat to us, she just has a bit of belly pooch), if that’s not telling someone that they’re too thin for FA, what is? Coming right out and saying “Get the fuck out of here, you’re not fat, you’re thin, you don’t belong here”? She wasn’t advocating dieting or WLS, all she was saying was that she used to think she was fat, she’s learned to love her body as-is, with what fat it has, and people got all up in arms and flamed the hell out of her. If that isn’t telling a thin (to us) person that they don’t belong in FA, then I don’t know what is. I went through the same shit when I first came to FA because I was honest about the fact that I had had WLS long before I knew what FA was. I was told that because I had had WLS, even though it failed, even though I was fatter than ever, I didn’t belong in FA. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, I’m a stubborn bitch and when I think an activist space is the right place for me to be, I refuse to be run out of it and I make a place for myself. But then again, I’m not 16 or 17 years old, I was 53 at the time and had years to build up my fuck-you attitude.
So yes, these FA spaces can be very unwelcoming if you don’t fit the criteria that those who think they rule the spaces think you should fit.
Vesta – I never saw what was said to the Size 6 girl. Was it “you don’t belong here” or more along the lines of “I’m not sure you belong in a ‘chubby’ space because you’re a size 6.”
The latter makes sense to me, although in that case, shouldn’t the moderators have been the ones to gently steer her elsewhere? Where’s their responsibility?
However, re: the WLS issue, it makes no sense at all to me that people would say you couldn’t be in FA because of having had WLS and I would hope that you told off the specific people in question – I find myself wondering if people are blaming “FA” for the words of a few individuals, when FA is an awfully large (no pun intended) and inclusive space for the most part.
When I first got into FA, I weighed 200lbs, and was a 14/small 16. I always felt welcome. I am now 175lbs, and am a 10/12. I still identify as an inbetweenie, and still feel very welcome in FA. Do I post pictures anywhere in the Fatosphere? No, because even at my heaviest (210lbs.) I still didn’t wear plus size clothing, and so posting pictures would have been irrelevant at best, and eliminationism of larger bodies at worst. But I still have a rich experience otherwise commenting and participating.
I didn’t think anyone actually “flamed” that thin poster, but I could have missed it. Telling a girl who wears a size 6 that she isn’t fat isn’t flaming.
As someone who has spent the past few years healing from anorexia and going from a size 00 to a size 10, I have always felt welcome in FA. It has been integral to my recovery to “spend time” with so many wonderful people who accept their bodies as they are. However, like Rose, I would never, ever post pictures at FA sites at my current size. I am very cognizant of my thin privilege and appreciative of the function of safe spaces for people do not experience that.
What people are not getting about this issue is this: a size 6 posting is not really appropriate for a fat-defined space. Having boundaries about this issue is important – having boundaries does not automatically equal “get the fuck out.” Either the moderators needed to re-name that space, or change their submission policy, or re-word their submission policy and put up a more coherent FAQ, or keep to the integrity of that space inherent in the title of that blog. And it’s that simple – it truly is not more complicated than that. And from what I understand, the moderators of that tumblr site have since been really great about this issue subsequently. This whole “fight” has spiraled into something that kind of…I don’t even know anymore. I’ve seen endless complications tacked onto to this argument and one of the endless complications that have been unnecessarily tacked on is this “too thin for FA.” Unless people want to call out specific people, specific posts, or specific incidents on-line or off-line this is a strawman argument.
However
if ANYONE told anyone “you are too thin for FA” that person is wrong and they should not be listened to. It’s that simple too. If anyone unfairly, abusively attacked that size 6 girl, they were wrong and should not be listened to. Why this is so hard to understand, leaves me totally baffled.
Honestly, I think it’s getting such a reaction because the size 6 girl basically did a variation of that thing, you know, that thing where you’re standing there in a clothing store wondering if you should even bother to try on that XXL shapeless sweater, and she’s next to you complaining about how fat she is at a size six (except she’s changed it a bit to say how happy she is to be fat at a size six’).
I hate that. I think a lot of people in FA hate that. I don’t think the debate is about who should be in FA and who should not be – but more about how people should behave!
I posted to FYCF earlier and I felt that she is welcome to support the blog byt fuck yeah chubby fashion is about celebrating a certain size of woman that we see NO where else in most media outlets. As a size 14ish inbetweenie I love this blog because whenever I feel the loath monster creep into my thoughts I can log in, see all these beautiful women who look like me and get my head back on straight. Our bodies are marginalized, our bodies are invisible, neutered everywhere… this is a space that deprograms the brain. When we see relatively thin girls who post on there it diminishes the effect. This girl has other places which are appropriate for her like “LoveYourBody” which is more body diverse. That does not mean she cannot be part of the conversation but the topic, for once, is not about her.
Its the same for blogs that are for deathfatz space, I understand the need and work hard to respect and protect these places and safe spaces for the people in this category. I think there is room in this dialogue to welcome all bodies but also have spaces for different bodies because it is so healing vs. the greater social context we live in.
I don’t post pictures of myself. However, I do tell people I’m a smaller fat person. I look small for my weight. I tell people that because it’s been as issue for me when I was younger and I don’t want other people to go through what I did. I think it is important for smaller fats like myself to learn to feel good about themselves. I think they’re neglected in the fatosphere.
I’ve never been told that I don’t belong because I’m a smaller fat, overweight on BMI and wears straight sizes. I don’t buy plus sizes but often have to try on lots of clothes to find dresses or coats since I have a rack of doom (38 or 40D).
And that’s the thing – she submitted a photo, and the moderator(s) posted it. If the moderators thought it wasn’t appropriate for their space, they had no business posting it. Everyone who went there got all judgmental about whether she should have posted the pic or not, but it wasn’t up to her whether the pic was posted, it was up to the moderator(s). The moderator posted that pic and the commentary of the owner of the pic, but it was the girl who got the nasty comments. Instead of posting the pic, maybe the moderator should have steered her to more “appropriate” places to post her pics, where people would have been more celebratory for her and less judgmental.
And that’s the thing – why do people have to get all judgmental over someone celebrating the fact that she finally loves her body? We all, fat, thin, in-between, are bombarded day in and day out with messages about how imperfect we are and how we need to strive for perfection and no matter how close anyone comes to meeting that perfection, the goalposts are always moved just out of reach. It’s a wonder to me that any girl or woman can ever learn to love her body in this toxic society of ours. The fact that she did should be celebrated, no matter what her size is. What hurts one woman hurts all women.
Vesta – yes, the fault primarily lies with the moderators. That said, is it really wrong for someone to say “this is not an appropriate space for you to appropriate as your own?” I’m not saying that she should have been treated badly. I’m saying that, if there’s a curly-hair community, I don’t go there posting pics of my straight hair.
Not comparing curly vs. straight hair to fat vs. thin, obviously, but my point is that surely it’s acceptable to have places that are for pictures of fat people. Not people. Fat people. And size six isn’t fat, even if she thinks she’s fat. There’s a difference there and, while I don’t argue with the fact that it sounds like some people treated her very badly (unfairly so), I’m not sure I see why it would be wrong for someone to say, regarding the Fatshionista community, for example, that sorry, a size 4 isn’t a fatshionista (unless she’s very, very, very short).
So I guess I’m still not seeing the issue but I really appreciate your willingness to share your perspective!
I very much like FA because its the place Ive found where body image issues, discrimination and priviledge are actually discussed rather than just being brushed under the carpet as “the way things are”. Im not fat, but the philosophy of size acceptance and HAES and the fantastic community of FA are important to me. They have opened my eyes a lot to the things I see around me all the time, but that due to the “delights” of priviledge would otherwise not have seen.
I agree with Heidi though that there need to sometimes be separate spaces. I cant advise on clothes shopping, or transport or other weight-specific FA stuff. But I can be part of a conversation on body image fat stigmatisation and medical bias. It would be appropriation for me to say I could understand what its like to be 400lbs.
On the appropriation of spaces.. Both the mods and the community need to take responsibility. Make rules, discuss them, change them, but keep the ones you make. And dont flame someone down for being “too thin”.