Words: They Haz A Meening
Mar 23rd, 2011 by heidi
I’ve been watching the furor over the chubby chicks post (gah, do I find tumblr annoyingly hard to follow) but the following has been building up for weeks? months? now, as various people have expressed feelings of “I’m too fat for FA!” “I’m too thin for FA!” “Why do the DEATHFATS! want their own space?!” “Reverse fatty discrimination!” in various ways, shapes, and forms…
My response, cut, pasted, and edited from a comment left elsewhere:
My heart breaks that a girl like the one that’s been the subject of zillions (a technical term) of tumbler posts so far considers herself chubby but that doesn’t give her the right to appropriate a space that belongs to people who DO break the societal norm in visible, obvious ways. That she was flamed for posting her photo in that space is reprehensible and cruel (as are many flamewars) but it doesn’t mean that words don’t mean things. They do.
I am fat. I’m somewhere over 300 pounds, and I wear anything from a 26-30 (mostly in the 28-30 bracket). I experience life as a fat, and as awful as it may feel for Photo Girl [tm] to be a size 6, she has never had to be terrified that she won’t fit in her plane seat, or check out the various types of seating in a restaurant to make sure that she’s not sitting on too fragile a chair (or one with arms that are too tight). She’s never sobbed because her only choices, when she comes down to it, are plus-size stores (and, at my weight, not even all of those), at least assuming that she lives somewhere in the West.
She may well have sobbed over her weight. She may find it tragically awful and hate her body. I get that and I’m very sorry. But she is not chubby. The fact that she claims she is illustrates how screwed up society is and fighting back against that is important…but it doesn’t negate the fact that I, as an undeniably fat person, am under no obligation to see her as a sister in experiencing fat discrimination. A sister in body hatred and warped body images, yes, but NOT a fellow fat.
It is offensive when not-fat people around me complain about their “pinch an inch” bellies, claiming that this makes them fat (not chubby, mind you, OMG DIET NOW FAT.) It is triggering when someone who is thin complains that she can’t eat the “evil food” in the staff lounge…because the implication, of course, is that eating it, and potentially getting fat, is itself evil. I, by extension, am evil, because I am fat. Fat. DEATHFAT!
“Chubby” is in the eye of the beholder, true, but simply thinking that you are chubby does not make it so. Lots of women have curves. Pot bellies, of varying sizes. Breasts, of varying sizes. Hips and butts of varying sizes. Having a round tummy, or breasts, or butt, does not make you “chubby” or “fat” – “chubby” may technically MEAN “rounded and fleshy” if you look it up in a dictionary but what it actually means, in society, is “too rounded and fleshy.” The girl in the photo may feel chubby, but societally-speaking, she is not.
I can empathize sincerely with my much-smaller friends’ body issues while still pointing out that I am larger than all of them, save a few online, and that causes specific problems for me (and others like me) that *they do not share.* That’s not discrimination against them, or her…that’s the fact of the matter. My lived experience as a fat woman is facing the realities of my size, and the hatred of society for my body, every single day. I cannot step into a grocery store without seeing the magazines that vilify people who are MUCH smaller than me as having “let themselves go.” Everything I put into my cart at that store can be considered by the people around me as up for their judgment: she’s eating a salad, good, maybe she’s dieting! ew, gross, why would that fat lady be getting Cheetos? GOD, that’s why she’s so fat! I wonder if her kid’s going to end up fat like her. ugh. if I were that size, I’d kill myself.
We’ve heard this time and time again on the Fatosphere. My experience is nothing new (and not nearly as bad as many fellow fats’ horror stories) but there’s this persistent need by people who are much smaller to try to claim that they’ve got it as bad as someone like me, who flies only despite near panic attacks about whether or not I’ll fit in a seat. You may have faced discrimination, and I’m very sorry. We, as a society, need to work on that and the Fatosphere is a great place to do it. However, if I point out that there are lived realities that you do NOT experience, not being a deathfat, it’s not exclusionary on my part, or some kind of “my discrimination is worse than your discrimination!” It simply is a fact, because you can fit in that airplane seat and maybe I can’t.
I don’t see any reason why the Fatosphere can’t have both large and small group spaces, where people discuss greater societal issues and issues specific to certain groups (where DO in-betweenies/smaller fats shop, and particularly the petite ones like my mother?) But please, please don’t try to imply that a size six has the right to call herself “fat” without that being at all hurtful to those of us who don’t just feel fat (yes, I know that really sucks), but who actually ARE fat and face very real challenges and discrimination because of it.
Sometimes we need spaces to ourselves. It doesn’t mean we don’t like you. It means we’re not all exactly the same. As I tell my little boy on a regular basis, we all come in different shapes and sizes, and isn’t that wonderful?
Let me re-state that: If I need a space to be with other DEATHFATS!, so that there is ONE place in my life where I don’t feel a surge of jealousy when my size 4 sister complains that she can’t find any clothes, because they’re all too big for her, or where a size 18 claims that because an ultrasound never hurt HER, she can’t understand why it would hurt ME (and that I must be totally overreacting and lying to say it does), well, it doesn’t mean I don’t respect those life experiences and sympathize with my sister. It means that, for one teeny, tiny portion of my day, I need a space for myself that is comforting, loving, and completely understanding.
Okay, bring on the dissent. I’m sure it’s out there! No flaming, please.
Thanks for the comment and great post, Heidi. You’ve said this really well, better than I ever could, and I’m in an inbetweenie who actually IS an inbetweenie who thought she was FAT her whole life. Until I found the fatosphere I thought I was just like the ‘headless fatties’ we see used in the media. Then I found the fatosphere thanks to a friend, a much bigger friend than me, and did a lot of reading andn learning before I even began to post comments anywhere, nevermind start my own blog about being ‘small fat’. I was and still am very grateful that I’m allowed to be a part of the Fatosphere, but have never felt unwelcome because of my size. Maybe that’s because I don’t try to say “I know exactly how you feel, Deathfat Ladiez! Make room for me!”
Jen – I absolutely remember being an inbetweenie and I really DID think I was DEATHFAT! It was only when I got, well, really deathfat that I realized how different my experience is now from what it was then. I’m sad if people flamed that girl for not understanding the difference but there IS a difference – I can only think that people who say otherwise maybe haven’t lived at both sizes to know it.
Yeah, having been smaller at one point in my life, and feeling fat back then, I think now “Girl, you didn’t know what fat was!” Boy, do I know what fat is now, now that I’m almost 400 lbs. Yes, I was still fat at 175 lbs, but the difference between wearing sizes 14/16/18 and sizes 28/30/32 is huge, not to be too punny here. When I look at pics of me back then, I now think I was actually normal-sized (that was in the late 1960s/early 1970s). What I wouldn’t have given to have known about FA back then, just for the fact that it would told me that I wasn’t fat, that I was normal, and I didn’t have to hate my body. But I probably would have been told to fuck off, that I didn’t belong in FA because I wasn’t fat enough, even though by BMI, even back then, I was overweight by 30 lbs (and it’s the dieting to lose that 30 lbs that started me on the road to where I am now, weight-wise).
I don’t know, I’ve sorta kinda maybe seen both sides of it, and I’m still ambivalent about the whole thing.
Vesta – I’m “ambivalent” in the sense that I absolutely think people of all sizes should feel welcome to discuss body acceptance issues on the Fatosphere.
Where I draw the line is someone feeling hurt when people point out that no, while they may think they understand fat experience, at a size 6 there’s a lot of fat experience that they’re not getting and they need to not assume that they are.
That shouldn’t be done in a negative way, obviously, but part of the onus needs to be on the smaller person to educate themselves about FA once they’re aware of how much is out there. As I see it, I’ve held British citizenship for three? four? years now but I don’t march into an online community of Brits and appropriate their culture by acting as if it’s somehow now my heritage. I can celebrate my newfound Britishness, if I like (whatever that is) but having British citizenship doesn’t automatically confer any sort of cultural wisdom/knowledge on me. I have to educate myself and try to fit in.
Hi Heidi
Thanks for a even handed response to the “size 6 girl incidence” 🙂
I think that there is already too many enemies of fat acceptance for us to be making enemies with rightful resentments. The situation could have been handled better.
For the record I hate Tumblr.
William
I can’t stand Tumblr either. It took me a year to join Facebook and I doubt I’ll have a Twitter account. Tumblr looks just too disorganized IMHO and it’s hard to follow.
We know a size 6 is definitely not fat. We know a person who is a size 6 will have it so much easier in life when it comes to being judged for their body and not worrying about fitting into chairs, clothes shopping, doctor visits, etc. instead of a size 26. That’s a given. But our culture is so anti-fat that somewhere along the line, the girl in question must have been shamed or harassed which made her feel “chubby” and not liking her body.
The attitude taken towards her was uncalled for. The hostility and the elitist “go look it up” attitude towards non-trolling “outsiders” from certain people in the FA community both sadden and anger me. This is why I stopped visiting Shapely Prose. We have got to rise above that crap. Otherwise, it’s going to be even more of a struggle to have us be taken seriously if we act like bullies.
I have nothing more to say than “HELL YES!” You have expressed everything I have been thinking and feeling as a DeathFatty (I’m about the same size and weight as you) so perfectly.
Honestly, the “hostility” may have been split, and on tumblr, it was varied and NOT all the same. Some of the dissent was squarely placed on the shoulders of the moderators, some of it was not. Some of the disagreement while emotional was fair, and some of the disagreement was not fair. I’m a little weary of what I see cropping up time and time agian, which is essentially the “tone” argument. There is a difference between being abusive and expressing some anger. When a safe space is not respected, yes some people are hurt and get angry, and it’s o.k. for them to say so. Obviously, some of the disagreement was abusive which I don’t agree with. Shannon at nudemuse recently addressed some of the abusive language in a recent post – I think it was quite good. I do think others made some good points without abusing anyone, like you Heidi, and The Rotund. I think it is totally o.k. to be emotional and to say so, with a rigorous argument to back oneself up with. There were plenty of strong opinions about why a size 6 submitting photos was not o.k. in a fat-defined space, and not all of them were about telling anyone to “fuck off.” Like you Heidi, I don’t see ANY reason why we can’t have a variety of spaces that speak to the different layes and nuances of fat acceptance and body acceptance. In this particular, specific case, it was not apropriate. That does NOT mean it’s not apropriate ever, ever, ever that a size 6 submit a photo and talk about accepting her body as is – of course not. I don’t understand why this is so difficult to understand.
Some spaces are for everyone. Some spaces are not. This varies greatly from situation, to situation. Again, I don’t understand why this is so difficult to understand.
My point of view on letting someone who is a size six call herself fat, it shifts perceptions of what is an ‘acceptable’ amount of fat. Here on the Fat-o-Sphere, I am glad to note that there isn’t much engaging in what is ‘acceptably fat’ and what is ‘too fat,’ though I have heard rumor that in times before my joining this space that was an issue. When a size six becomes defined as fat, it becomes the new standard of ‘acceptably fat,’ it shifts the whole scale of oppression downward, magnifying oppression for anyone larger than them. I sense that the tension between the ‘inbetweenies’ and the ‘Deathfats’ might also come from the same place; ‘inbetweenies’ are sometimes given a pass by society because at lest they are not ‘deathfat,’ and thus experience less oppression.
I feel that much of the hostility come from the fear of comparison of relative fatness. I have been on both sides of the comparison depending on my size at the time. A friend or family member will say to me, “Well, you are on the chubby side, but at lest your not as fat as (name of a person we mutually know who is fatter than I.)” Now that I am the fattest person in my close social network, I often feel like I am now the standard to be compared against.
The thing is, a size six with a paunch is already given a pass by our society 90%< of the time. I have a hard time visualizing a size four being compared in fatness to a size six and told that at lest she is not that fat. The overt shaming really doesn't start until fat becomes a dominate feature of the figure, which I imagine happening at about size 16<, but it will vary from person to person.
In the end, I think it is valid for fat people to police their space and choose what images will be shown in their safe space. I don't think that flame wars need to be a part of that. I also do not consider FYCG a safe place any more. The fact the mods keep having these issues shows to me that I cannot trust that space to be made safe, so I will go elsewhere to find that place.